Vice President Kamala Harris was interviewed Tuesday by NBC News’ Hallie Jackson at the Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C.
Read the full transcript:
JACKSON: Thank you, Madam Vice President, for your time today.
HARRIS: I’m glad to be with you. Thank you.
JACKSON: We were just talking about the campaign trail yesterday, and these key Rust Belt battlegrounds, as they call them, talking with undecided voters. You are reaching out that olive branch to these voters, you want to bring them on board. For them, for so many voters, we know that a huge issue for them is the economy. It’s the cost of living. I’ve been on the campaign trail. I hear that in the field again and again. You look at some of the numbers on this, and our new NBC News poll shows that more voters think that the Biden administration policies have hurt them rather than help them, rather than help them. And I wonder, are the last four years an obstacle to you in this race?
HARRIS: Here’s how I look at it. First of all, let me be very clear, mine will not be a continuation of the Biden administration. I bring my own experiences, my own ideas to it, and it has informed a number of my areas of focus, most of which are on to your point, lowering costs. I have been traveling the country. I am very clear; the cost of groceries is still too high. The voters know it, I know it.
So part of my plan includes what we need to do to bring down the price of groceries, including the work I will do dealing with price gouging, something I dealt with when I was attorney general, something I would deal with going forward. Cost of housing. You know, I’m speaking with people of every background in every area of the country, of every age. And, you know, the idea of the American dream was something that previous generations could count on, not as much anymore. Bringing down the cost of housing by doing what I have done in my career, that perhaps is a, is a different approach, which is really actively working with the private sector.
For example, home builders, to create incentives for them to build millions of new homes and housing units so we can bring down the cost, including what I will do to give people a $25,000 down payment assistance if they are a first time home buyer. So these are examples. The example is what I’m going to do to expand the Child Tax Credit. Because, listen, young parents in particular, they need help.
They have a natural desire to parent their children well, but not all of the resources. 6000 extra dollars in the first year of their child’s life can help them buy a crib, or a car seat, or clothes, the things that are so crucial to that phase of their child’s development. So my plans and my policies are really directed at exactly your point: doing what we must do to bring down the cost of living, but also to help people not just get by, but get ahead.
And I’m proud to report to you that economists from Nobel laureates to Goldman Sachs have reviewed my economic plan versus Donald Trump’s, and in comparison, have found that my plans will strengthen America’s economy, his plans will weaken America’s economy.
JACKSON: Then why do you think that’s not landing with voters? [xtalk]
HARRIS: Oh, but I think it is.
JACKSON: Because in the numbers, it’s the opposite. Former President Trump leads you on this issue.
HARRIS: Well, when I’m out, this is why I’m going out to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and —
JACKSON: And Michigan.
HARRIS: Michigan. Excuse me. Just got in late this morning, actually. But going to three states yesterday, and I’m going to continue being on the road. I have to earn the vote, and it means sharing with folks my plan, but also offering them what objective analysts have shown to be the contrast between me and Donald Trump. My plans are focused on working people, the middle class, and what we must do to strengthen hard working people to be able to do what they dream and aspire to be able to do.
His plans are about giving tax cuts, massive tax cuts to billionaires and big corporations. His so-called plan for the economy, economists have estimated will exacerbate inflation and invite a recession by the middle of next year. So, this is a huge difference between he and I.
JACKSON: Let me ask you about something that you said when you were running for president the last time around, back in 2019. At the time, you said that the elephant in the room was whether the country was ready for a woman and a woman of color to be president. So, let me ask you, as you sit here today, do you think the country is ready now for a woman and a woman of color to be president?
HARRIS: Absolutely, absolutely. And I am seeing that in terms of every walk of life of our country. You know I think part of what is important in this election is really not only turning the page, but closing the page and the chapter on an era that suggests that Americans are divided.
What I know from personal experience, from lived experience, and from my travels, even most recently, the vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us. And what the American people want in their president is a president for all Americans, which is the type and kind of president I pledge to be.
This is my life’s work. As you know, I started as a prosecutor, I never asked a victim of crime, a witness to crime, are you a Republican or Democrat. The only thing I ever asked them is, are you OK? And that’s what the American people want to know, regardless of their race, regardless of their gender, or their age. They want to know that they have a president who sees them and understands their needs and focuses on their needs, understanding we all deserve to have a president who is focused on solutions and not just fanning the flames of division and hate.
JACKSON: You’ve been reluctant to lean into, to talk about the historic nature of your candidacy on the campaign trail. Why is that?
HARRIS: Well, I’m clearly a woman, [laughs] I don’t need to point that out to anyone. The point that most people really care about is, can you do the job, and do you have a plan to actually focus on them?
JACKSON: I hear you on that. [xtalk]
HARRIS: That is, that is why I spend the majority of my time listening and then addressing the concerns, the challenges, the dreams, the ambitions, and aspirations of the American people. They deserve to have a president who’s focused on them, as opposed to a Donald Trump who’s constantly focused on himself.
I think that’s part of why people are exhausted with Donald Trump and his approach, because it’s all about himself and his personal grievances, and not about the American people, not about how are you going to help families, how are you going to help small businesses, how are you going to strengthen our economy?
These are the things I’m focused on. I’m focused on investing in the new industries, on which America should lead and be a global leader.
JACKSON: I ask because to implement the agenda that you want to implement, you have to win first. You have to win the White House. [xtalk]
HARRIS: Of course. Of course.
JACKSON: And right now, there is a big gender gap in this race. Fewer men support you right now than they did President Biden. Some of your allies have suggested there’s sexism at play. I wonder, do you think there is sexism at play here?
HARRIS: Let me just tell you something, you’ve come to my events, and you will see there are men and women at those events, whether it be small events or events with 10,000 people. So, the experience that I am having is one in which it is clear that regardless of someone’s gender, they want to know that their president has a plan to lower costs, that their president has a plan to secure America in the context of our position around the world.
They want a president of the United States who honors our military, who understands the importance of America’s leadership around international rules and norms, and that is regardless of gender. [xtalk]
JACKSON: So, is that a no? [xtalk]
HARRIS: And that’s how I will lead.
JACKSON: Do you not see sexism as a factor in this race at all?
HARRIS: I don’t think of it that way. My challenge is the challenge of making sure I can talk with and listen to as many voters as possible and earn their vote. And I will never assume that anyone in our country should elect a leader based on their gender or their race, instead that that leader needs to earn the vote based on substance and what they will do to address challenges, and to inspire people to know that their aspirations and their ambitions can and will be achieved through the opportunity to do that.
JACKSON: Some of those voters that I spoke with at some of the events yesterday, for example, talked about they were there to support you, but also your agenda when it comes to reproductive rights and abortion access, and you have cast this as a matter of literal life and death as an urgent priority here. If you win, it is entirely possible that Congress will be controlled by Republicans. So what specific concessions would you be willing to make in order to get something done on abortion access as soon as possible?
HARRIS: Well, first of all, look at what has happened since the Dobbs decision came down, a decision that is a direct result of the fact that Donald Trump hand selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention they would undo the protections of Roe. They did as he intended. And now in 20 states, we have Trump abortion bans, which some make no exceptions for rape or incest.
Which criminalizes health care providers, in a state like Texas, prison for life for doctors and nurses if they provide reproductive care. And where we have seen this issue on the ballot, to your point about elections, from red states to blue states, when freedom is on the ballot, the American people vote for freedom regardless of the party they are registered to vote with. We have seen that.
And I know that there are members of the United States Congress who are well aware that their constituents are in favor of the very fundamental principle that a woman should be able to make decisions about her own body, and not have her government tell her what to do.
JACKSON: So is a question of pragmatism then: what concessions would be on the table? Religious exemptions, for example, is that something that you would consider with a Republican controlled Congress? [xtalk]
HARRIS: I don’t think we should be making concessions when we’re talking about a fundamental freedom to make decisions about your own body.
JACKSON: To Republicans like, for example, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, who would back something like this on a Democratic agenda, if, in fact, Republicans control Congress, would you offer them an olive branch, or is that off the table? Is that not an option for you?
HARRIS: I’m not gonna engage in hypotheticals because we could go on a variety of scenarios. Let’s just start with a fundamental fact, a basic freedom has been taken from the women of America: the freedom to make decisions about their own body., And that cannot be negotiable, which is that we need to put back in the protections of Roe v Wade. And that is it.
JACKSON: But what if you can’t do that? What if you can’t get that passed, and you want to save lives in Florida, and in Texas, and in Georgia? What do you do with that?
HARRIS: I’m not going to go down that rabbit hole with you right now. Cause right now — [xtalk]
JACKSON: It’s a question that’s out there, because it’s not a guarantee that Democrats will win control of Congress.
HARRIS: Well, I’m doing everything I can to make that sure we do. On this issue I think that what is clear to me is whether someone is, I was just with one of the leaders, and I think opinion leaders in the Republican party. Liz Cheney, who has, she has, as she has stated publicly and has expressed her private feelings.
JACKSON: She said it on stage yesterday.
HARRIS: She is pro-life, but she also understands the pain and the tragedy that has happened since Donald Trump allowed Roe v Wade to be overturned. So that’s my point about what is non-negotiable. It has to be that we agree that it is so fundamental that we allow women the ability with their doctor, with, if they choose, talking with their faith leader, to be able to make these decisions and not have the government tell her what to do.
JACKSON: On the question of your beliefs, what you believe in, let me ask you this question, very broadly speaking here: do you believe that transgender Americans should have access to gender-affirming care in this country?
HARRIS: I think we should follow the law. I mean, I think you’re probably pointing to the fact that Donald Trump’s campaign has spent tens of millions of dollars… [xtalk]
JACKSON: They’re trying to define you on this, I’m asking you to define yourself, though, just broadly speaking, what is your value? Do you believe they should have that access?
HARRIS: I believe that people, as the law states, even on this issue about federal law, that that is a decision that doctors will make in terms of what is medically necessary. I’m not going to put myself in a position of a doctor. But let’s also understand that Donald Trump is running tens of millions of dollars in ads to talk about two cases to distract from the fact that his policy and plan is also to take away the, the Affordable Care Act, which provides healthcare for tens of millions of people in our country.
That his plan is to undo the cap — the $35 a month cap on insulin that impacts millions of seniors in our country. That his plan is to do away with the $2,000 cap on prescription medication, the annual cap. That his plan is to get rid of the Department of Education, which would mean getting rid of Head Start. That his plan is to give tax cuts to billionaires and big corporations and on the backs of middle class working people.
So, let’s not get distracted by the issues, that, to your point, from the introductory point you raised, people want to know that their president has a plan to make their life better, and that includes addressing bringing down the cost of living. It includes dealing with prescription medication costs. It includes addressing the housing crisis and affordable housing crisis in our country. It includes supporting our small businesses, investing in American industries and strengthening our economy.
JACKSON: I will move on, but I don’t know that I heard a clear answer from you on the issue of gender-affirming care. It sounds like what you’re saying is there should be something between trans Americans and their doctors? It feels like that’s a long way from “we see you and we love you,” which was your message to trans-Americans in May? What do you want the LGBTQ plus community to know as they’re looking for a full throated backing from you for trans, for trans Americans?
HARRIS: I believe that all people should be treated with dignity and respect, period, and should not be vilified for who they are, and should not be bullied for who they are. And that is a true statement for me my entire career. And that has not changed.
JACKSON: Part of the case that you’re making to undecided voters and to these late deciding voters is not just the case for you, for what you would do, it’s the case against former President Trump. And on that. We are sitting here two weeks away from election night. Last election, the former president came out on election night and declared victory before all the votes were counted. What is your plan if he does that again in two weeks?
HARRIS: Well, let me say this, we’ve got two weeks to go, and I’m very much grounded in the present, in terms of the task at hand, and we will deal with election night and the days after, as they come, and we have the resources and the expertise and the focus on that as well.
JACKSON: So, you have teams ready to go. Is that what you’re saying? Are you thinking about that as a possibility?
HARRIS: Of course. This is a person, Donald Trump, who tried to undo the, a free and fair election, who still denies the will of the people, who incited a violent mob to attack the United States Capitol and 140 law enforcement officers were attacked. Some who were killed. This is a serious matter. The American people are, at this point, two weeks out, being presented with a very, very serious decision about what will be the future of our country.
And it includes whether we are a country that values a president who respects their duty to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Donald Trump has said he would terminate the Constitution of the United States. The American people are being presented with a choice here about whether we want a president who understands that America must stand strong as a leader around the globe, or an individual in Donald Trump who openly admires dictators.
My goodness, recent reports that he gave COVID tests to the President of Russia during the height of the pandemic here, when Americans couldn’t get their hands on covid tests, these are the choices before the American people right now. The choice before the American people is the choice to choose to turn the page on the division and the hate and to bring our country together knowing the vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us.
And that we can be optimistic about a new generation of leadership that is focused on what we have yet to achieve, to uplifting the American people.
JACKSON: If you win, it is entirely possible that the federal court cases against the former president will continue on. He is, of course, facing those felony charges. Would you consider if you win and he’s convicted, a pardon for former President Trump?
HARRIS: I’m not going to get into those hypotheticals. I’m focused on the next 14 days.
JACKSON: But do you believe, is there any part of you that subscribes to the argument that has been made in the past that a pardon could help bring America together, could help you unify the country and move them, move on.
HARRIS: Let me tell you what’s going to help us move on. I get elected President of the United States.
JACKSON: One of the things you talked about is having a Republican in your camp- in your cabinet, potentially.
HARRIS: Yes.
JACKSON: You spent a lot of time on the campaign trail with former Congresswoman Liz Cheney, as you referenced, is she somebody who, is she somebody who would consider putting in the cabinet? Have you talked with her about this topic?
HARRIS: I’ll keep you posted.
JACKSON: Okay. On immigration, because this is another issue that’s really important to Americans here.
HARRIS: Sure.
JACKSON: Immigration and Customs, Customs Enforcement, of course, back in 2019 you stopped short of calling to abolish ICE, as some Democrats were doing at the time. But you also said — [xtalk]
HARRIS: I’ve never called for abolishing ICE.
JACKSON: Correct. You stopped short of that. That’s right, that’s right. You said we should critically, critically re-examine it and you considered starting from scratch. Would you consider, if you’re president, starting from scratch with ICE?
HARRIS: Let me tell you what the Customs and Border Patrol agents need, what the immigration system needs, is it needs to be fixed, and it needs to be fixed in a number of ways that include bringing forth a bill that conservative members of Congress, along with others, pulled together, that we supported actively, that would put 1500 more border agents at the border.
To give those folks who are working around the clock and need support the assistance they need to get their job done. What we would do with that bill, if it were brought forward is be able to continue to stem the flow of fentanyl coming into the United States, which is ravaging countries around, I mean communities around our country. It would give us more resources to do what we need to do to prosecute transnational criminal organizations, something I have done.
But what happened to that bill? Donald Trump got word of it and told his friends in Congress, kill the bill, don’t bring it forward, because Donald Trump would prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem. And again, in this election, there are two very different choices, one that is focused on solutions, and the other that is focused on constant grievance and running on problems with no agenda for fixing them, and in fact, on this issue of immigration, he has been an obstacle to fixing this problem.
My proposal includes strengthening what we must do to ensure that we have an orderly and humane immigration system and that we fix what has been bro- broken for a long time. It has transcended administrations, and it needs to be fixed.
JACKSON: You have made it clear that you believe this is a binary choice between you and Donald Trump. That’s — those are candidates that are on the ballot, of course.
HARRIS: There’s only two choices…yes.
JACKSON: Of course, yes, but, and I know that Joe Biden is not on the ballot, I understand that, but the reason that you are at the top of the ticket is because he dropped out of this race. And so I want to ask you, and it was largely because of that debate performance back in June. You defended him in the days before and in the days after, as you were campaigning for another four years for President Biden. Can you say that you were honest with the American people about what you saw in those moments with President Biden, as you were with him again and again, repeatedly in that time?
HARRIS: Of course. Joe Biden is an — extremely accomplished, experienced and capable in every way that anyone would want if they’re president. Absolutely.
JACKSON: And you never saw anything like what happened at the debate night behind closed doors with him?
HARRIS: It was a bad debate. People have bad debates. That — he is absolutely…[xtalk]
JACKSON: But that’s the reason why you’re here, and he’s not running for the top of the ticket.
HARRIS: Well, you’d have to ask him if that’s the only reason why.
JACKSON: What do you think?
HARRIS: I am running for President of the United States. Joe Biden is not, and my presidency will be about bringing a new generation of leadership to America that is focused on the work that we need to do, to invest in the ambitions and aspirations of the American people.
JACKSON: It’s a judgment question, that’s why I ask. Can the American people trust you in these moments, even when it’s maybe uncomfortable for Americans to have, to level with Americans in that way? So that’s why I ask. And it sounds like what you’re saying is you feel like you feel like you never saw anything like that from President Biden?
HARRIS: I have worked with Joe Biden, whether — hours and hours and hours over these four years, whether it be in the Situation Room or the Oval Office. Joe Biden is the one who was able to bring NATO together during a crisis where for the first time in 70 years Europe saw and has seen war. Joe Biden has done the work that has been about being a leader on what we have done to fix so much of what has been broken in terms of the economy because of Donald Trump’s mismanagement.
I speak with not only sincerity, but with a real first hand account of watching him do this work. I have no reluctance in saying that. No, of course I don’t.
JACKSON: Madam Vice President, thank you for your time.I appreciate you being with us today.
HARRIS: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
JACKSON: We’ll talk again soon, I hope. Two weeks left. Thank you
